“Streaming services and YouTube have their own problems, but I think their existence means that there are far more crossovers between musicians who perhaps wouldn't have had the chance to work together before.”
Interview by Georgia Mulraine
Photos by James Streiker
caroline's post-genre palette has continued to enthral us in 2025, further establishing their avant-garde identity as both ambitious and accessible on caroline 2 . The follow-up to their acclaimed 2022 debut caroline, caroline 2 is a further foray into epic textures across a neat eight tracks. A totally absorbing collection of off-kilter post-rock meditations, a compelling interplay of quiet-loud dynamics.
After celebrating caroline 2's arrival as Album of the Month back in June, experiencing the album live and intimate at Rough Trade East and witnessing the record become a firm favourite for so many of our staff, we are thrilled to see its inclusion in our Albums of the Year 2025 list. We caught up with two of caroline's original founders Jasper Llewellyn and Casper Hughes to celebrate this.
Contrast, collaboration, Coldplay covers, club tracks and Caroline Polachek. We chat to Jasper and Casper from caroline about the making of caroline 2.
Congratulations on the release of caroline 2, it’s a record that’s been greatly enjoyed at Rough Trade this year, and we are really pleased to celebrate and highlight it as an Albums of the Year 2025 Top 10 title!
caroline 2 plays with contrast in a more distinct way than your debut release, evolving the atmospheric sound established on album one to capture even more emotion. Were you consciously focusing on contrast this time round, or was this something you were drawn to over time?
Jasper: I think the whole record is pretty defined by contrast. Juxtapositions became a pretty big feature. The music on the first record also had an element of that, but we definitely leaned into it for caroline 2. There were definite contrasts between which instruments were playing on the first record, whereas on this record, the contrasts were maybe more drawn between the recording qualities and the songs as a whole. Contrast became part of the theme and the essence of the record, I would say.
Georgia: By leaning into contrast, did you feel there were emotions you were able to tap into and push further?
"Songs like Coldplay cover reflect this - it's two quite different moods almost happening simultaneously. It’s a basic part of emotional experience, parts of you having one experience and parts of you having another experience, and somehow you make it all work. It’s looking at the emotional dimension of that contrast."
Jasper
Casper: I think when we've talked about this before, it's been about how the inspiration in many ways comes from the reality of living in a city, and just living generally. There are sounds with different intentions coming from different places in your ‘oral field’. We're constantly dealing with sounds coming from different sources, different textures and different intentions. Sometimes these kinds of coincidences are really quite profound and create these amazing accidental concoctions. The process of trying to emulate that experience more intentionally is part of our motivation and what excites us
In terms of what that means emotionally, I guess it's that when things are kind of surprising, in some way, they can elicit something new. New things, creating new combinations, it's more likely to elicit something emotionally interesting or exciting in you because you're experiencing it for the first time. There's not that sameness.
Jasper: Yeah. I feel that holding things that are different in tension with one another, as you were saying, it's a big, crucial and fundamental part of just being alive in any place, really. A big part of that is that you also hold emotions that are quite different from one another in tension at the same time. The different emotions you might be experiencing might influence one another. Songs like Coldplay cover reflect this - it's two quite different moods almost happening simultaneously. It’s a basic part of emotional experience, parts of you having one experience and parts of you having another experience, and somehow you make it all work. It’s looking at the emotional dimension of that contrast.
Casper: Yeah, that's a nice way of thinking about it. We're never just going for just one emotion. We're not like, "All right, here’s this rousing crescendo where we're just building up to this euphoric emotion." It's more the pushing and pulling between different feelings and moods, textures and environments. As Jasper says, there are hopefully multiple emotions being expressed within one song.
The full formation of Caroline as an eight-piece really happened during the making of your self-titled debut, rather than in the ideas stage of the album. How did the increased voices in the band influence the songwriting process for caroline 2 in comparison? Did it teach you something new about collaboration?
Jasper: It was very different. We did a lot more communal writing, and the record definitely sounds different because of it. The music is written to the strengths of all the people in the band and written by all the people in the band, whereas the first record was more of a hodge podge mix of ideas, stuff we had already that we wanted people to play. This record is for and about this group of people and made by this group of people, and you can tell that in it. It plays to everyone's strengths because we know each other as musicians so well.
We're learning about collaboration all the time. Collaboration is a very beautiful but hard thing. We're all dependent on each other, and that brings its challenges. We all care a lot about what we do. Collaboration is amazing, but it's something that requires effort - you have to be prepared to put a lot into it for it to work. We've learned so much over making the record about that - what do you think Casper?
Casper: It was definitely a more collaborative record. In previous interviews, I have spelt out how and when the writing normally happens or where I think it happens, but it's never one fixed thing. Generally, me, Jasper and Mike work on the core of certain songs and then bring them to the rest of the band and collaborate more with them at that stage. Maybe we'll direct things, but everyone will write their own parts.
Collaboration is definitely complex and has the ability to be euphoric when things go well. It’s fundamentally about communication and being able to compromise, learning how to speak to one another with respect and a sense of understanding. Writing as we do, in that middle stage, is challenging with eight people. In the sense that there are a lot of voices. But I think that we’ve learnt to really listen to everyone. It was this one particular writing trip to Essex - there was quite a big breakthrough for everyone to feel that they could come to a writing session with ideas and know that if they really wanted to hear something happen, then they could. I think that set a good precedent for the rest of the album writing. We managed to really maintain that, which was a really good feeling throughout.
Georgia: I'm sure some people would feel like having more people would make things difficult, but with the style that you guys have, it's like the more ideas, the more the record just feels really inspired, and that togetherness really comes across.
Jasper: That’s great. I’m glad that it feels like that.
caroline have played two widely talked about in-stores at Rough Trade East, for both album releases. You’re known for incorporating improvisation into your performances - how do you decide what to leave open on stage, and how often do you feel your music takes on a different direction live than in the studio?
Jasper: Since we've been doing the live shows, it’s never really been that improvised, but I think it's a wonderful thing if people have that experience of it. Our songs consist of large parts - generally the structures are always the same, but some of which rely on negotiation between us in the moment, so in a sense, improvisation. I think that's why the songs have the quality of being precarious, and there’s a risk that runs through all of the songs. It’s not deliberate with the things we end up writing, but I'm really happy that people have the experience of feeling it's improvised, as they should have that feeling of precarity.
Casper: There are parts I can imagine sound improvised. Some of Ollie's parts and maybe Alex’s as well. Maybe certain players have certain flourishes for different performances or more room for a kind of ‘manoeuvre’ than others, just because of the way that the songs are written. Whenever I approach a song, I don't exactly know when I'm coming in or coming out, I have to feel when it is. I think this is why, as Jasper says, they feel precarious in many ways.
We’re always excited to see our favourite artists collaborating, so as fans of both caroline and Caroline Polachek, the release of Tell me I never knew that has to be one of our favourite music moments of 2025, and favourite pieces on the album. The song and accompanying video feels like a collage of moments from both Caroline the artist and caroline the band - leading up to one joyous moment. Was there a clear concept in mind which guided the collaboration?
Jasper: There was no initial concept; it was more just that we had this vocal part and guitar part written.
Casper: I suppose you could say that the concept was to write a catchy pop vocal.
Jasper: Yeah, I suppose that's true. As soon as we started the vocal line, it was like, "Oh, let's make it like that." But as a whole song, it didn't have a whole vision for how the entire thing should be, I suppose. We spent ages actually reworking the second half of the song as an eight, trying to get it to feel right. It took ages, and then, actually even after we recorded it, we thought: “This is a bit dodgy”. We really felt like it was the weakest song, the danger song of the eight we'd made.
It did change quite a bit in production. It started off quiet and then it grew. But exactly how it grew was something we basically couldn't settle on, and so we ended up chopping a lot, doing quite surgical work on it to try and sort it out in production. Then we invited Caroline to sing on. She added her vocals, and she added all her improvised vocals, and we realised that she basically took it to another level in a big way. With improvisation and harmonies. We hadn't thought that she'd write all these harmonies. We thought she’d just deliver the melody line, but she wrote all these other vocal parts in the first half and then all of these improvised vocals in the second half, and they were just all just so good.
Casper: It definitely did go from something a bit unwieldy, long, and a bit unsure of its own structure, then Mike and Jasper did a really good job of editing it into something a bit more choppy and concise. Then Caroline Polachek nailed it. Really, really nailed it and elevated it massively. I'm obviously very happy with how it turned out. It’s a good song. I really like listening to it still
"It's an exciting time to be a musician, on the fringes of alternative music. I guess we would class ourselves in some ways as a post-rock band, but we also wrote a pop song with Caroline Polachek. Historically, that’s quite a weird thing to have done if you look at post-rock bands of the past, but now it's quite an exciting time in terms of people collaborating beyond genre."
Casper
Collaborating with Caroline was a little new for the band, but obviously, you are very influenced by so many different artists and ‘genres’ and scenes, including pop. Do you see more of these kinds of collaborations happening for the band in the future?
Casper: Yeah, I think so. I think it's really opened up lots of possibilities. We listen to a wide range of music and lots of us have other projects that we work on. So I think we will always be taking inspiration and collaborating with other friends and musicians on things anyway. But now we've been in touch with a few people since the album, whose music we really love, who really enjoyed it. There aren't exact plans to collaborate, but it's really nice to know that the people you had in mind when writing the album or the people who inspired you, also understand what you were trying to do. That always feels so gratifying.
It's an exciting time to be a musician, on the fringes of alternative music. I guess we would class ourselves in some ways as a post-rock band, but we also wrote a pop song with Caroline Polachek. Historically, that’s quite a weird thing to have done if you look at post-rock bands of the past, but now it's quite an exciting time in terms of people collaborating beyond genre. Lots of people in pop music are doing very interesting things; the genre boundaries are dissolving a little bit. I think it's a lot to do with how we consume music. Streaming services and YouTube have their own problems, but I think their existence means that there are far more crossovers between musicians who perhaps wouldn't have had the chance to work together before.
Both of caroline’s two full-length projects have been released via Rough Trade Records, your label home since 2020. The label’s independent ethos and background championing DIY artists feels like a good fit for caroline - how has signing impacted your journey, has it been important in finding a community?
Casper: It was just a really fortuitous thing. We've loved being on Rough Trade. It's been an overwhelmingly positive experience. We really love and admire Geoff and Jeanette who run the label. I mean, they're just legends in a genuine sense. Geoff is, you know, almost responsible (obviously not solely) for independent music and independent record labels as we know them; it's crazy to be able to work with both of them. They've just let us do what we want. I think they like our music and they let us know that and they just give us the chance to make albums.
Jasper: It's been awesome.
Casper: They trust that what we're going to do, they'll like. We always know that we can completely trust our instincts, and there is trust in our creative decisions, so we can move in any direction that we want.
As part of the Rough Trade Albums of the Year 2025 celebrations, caroline release a bonus 12” called Not everything needs to even out alongside caroline 2. What can people expect to hear on this, and how does it expand on the album?
Jasper: They're mostly acoustic demos on the A-side. Me and Magdalena singing, with me playing guitar.
Casper: I think there's one of me and you singing When I get home in the park as well.
Jasper: On the other side, the B side, is actually a new song which we'd hoped to turn into something on the record on caroline 2, but we never got around to.
Georgia: Using different spaces is an important part of the caroline process?
Jasper: It’s a big aspect of how we choose to record, using different environments and making sure we are not just confined to a studio or seeing the studio as the only place to record. Imagining which kind of situations and environments would suit a certain section or part of a song. Not just because of how it would resonate in a certain space but also because of how it fits or feels to play in a certain place.
Casper: With When I get home there's this distant kick drum, a club track, recorded from afar (the urinals of Avalon Cafe in Bermondsey). It’s happening simultaneously to the guitar, vocal and the bass clarinet, violin, viola and trombone track. The two are kind of happening concurrently. They work somehow together, but returning to that idea of how they have very different intentions…and they are played in very different environments.
Georgia: It would be cool to hear that club track on its own, too, see how it exists separately.
Jasper: I kind of wish we had also released it completely - not heard from the bathroom.
Casper: Yeah, maybe we can do that.
Jasper: We should probably do that at some point!
Rough Trade Albums of the Year #9
caroline - caroline 2
Available on on LP or CD + Rough Trade Exclusive not everything needs to even out 12”.